467 Comments

ET Aftermath 2019 Results


pollIt is time for our “Aftermath” contest! Every year we share our views on the acts from The Eurovision Song Contest! However before, we really didn’t have a platform to share our combined personal views on the matter, but now we have thanks to our “Premath/Aftermath” contests. The idea is simple, we vote before rehearsals and after the contest and then compare the two to check the differences!

The ET Premath 2019 was won by The Netherlands followed by yet again Italy who seems to enjoy getting teased from that number one spot! You can check out the full detailed (correct) results here!

The idea behind the Aftermath is that we always seem to have a slightly if not a big disagreement with the juries in the ESC each year. Many of you guys are very musically interested. The Fridas and ETSC shows that we are diverse in our voting and also shows that we have a slightly if not a very different taste than that of the juries have in their voting! So why not make it into a ranking showing of our own jury views!

The ET Aftermath will always be after the contest (hence the name) as it is intended to not be a ranking of only the songs per say, but the overall performance in the contest as well! This is of course just a moral guideline and individually ranked in the end!

Stay tuned as the reveal will resume down below in the comment section at 19:00 today! 

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467 comments on “ET Aftermath 2019 Results

  1. I did receive a reminder about the ET Aftermath, but I haven’t really got the time, sorry. It would require me to watch the whole thing over again, and I didn’t really have the nerves for that. Moreover I only watched the final in full length, so I have not seen several of the semi performances.

    For the same reason I didn’t take part in the Fridas either (my preferences rarely get a chance anyway).

    As for now, I am looking forward to ETSC where hopefully we’ll get to hear some good music.

    • I missed the points you would have given to Poland. Tulia needed you!

      • Guess you have to be a fan of rock and neo-folk to like it.

        I have to say, looking at some of the songs that are in the top here, I think: what?… On the other hand I am glad people like the Portuguese song. That song was really about artistery.

        • It’s all good Andres! However I will have to say that In the end it is people like you who gives that extra edge to the voting. And I missed that, cause this year in particular the points were mostly distribuated to the top 13 of the Aftermath.
          And your preferences does make a difference, Poland for example would have climbed 6ish placement with a 10 pointer for example.

          • I couldn’t agree more. I really miss Anders here. :(

            • It is also that I don’t have as much spare time as I used to, due to my work. And going through a whole contest is a lot of work, especially when you have only heard the songs a few times and watched the live performances only once.

              And in the end I would rather spend my time listening to the music that really means something to me: classical music, (experimental) rock, folk music, singer/songwriter and so on. There has been less and less really good music in Eurovision in recent years, and to be brutally honest, there are just so many aspects of today’s Eurovision that I really can’t relate to, and which clash with my values. Before there were at least some great songs, and that is what kept me interested. When these are not there anymore (with a few exceptions: Poland and Portugal this year, and in 2017 there were Belgium and Portugal), there isn’t really anything left for me in the contest.

              My interest already began to fade in 2016: When I analyzed all the songs, I became increasingly frustrated about the lack of substance and originality.

            • For me being here is a as much about the community as it is about music … although the ET crowd sometimes drives me crazy … with their Iceland hype this year f. e. ;) :)

            • I don’t like Iceland either. At all.

            • And that’s one of the reasons I need you here. :)

            • But now: Can you be part of a site dedicated to a contest you don’t really like anymore?

            • Why not? We talk about a lot of things here: music, politics, sport …

            • I guess I would mostly be active off-season then.

            • I’ll be participating in ETSC in any case though :)

            • That’s good news. :)

            • Btw, I am baking rye bread right now. Do you eat that in Germany too? (apart from pumpernickel)

            • Yummy. Of course we eat rye bread. After all, we have almost 500 types of bread in Germany, and we have significant regional differences.. We make bread from everything, even potatoes and ancient seeds that were out of fashion for 100 years. :)
              But once again, taking Pumpernickel as an example once again proves that most non-Germans mostly think of North Germany and/or Bavaria when forming their ideas about Germany. Pumpernickel is only eaten in the North and is almost impossible to find here in the South-West. Traditionally we mostly eat white bread here … probably French influence once again. However, things have become insanely diverse bread-wise here in BaWü over the past 20 years … but Pumpernickelhasn’t made it … yet.

            • Ah, I didn’t know that. I guess it shows the difference between a big country like Germany and a small one like Denmark. There are regional differences too though: F.e. ‘tarteletter’ are usually mostly associated with Jutland (or that’s how it is verbalised).

            • And don’t forget that Germany came into being only in1870. That makes regional differences even more pronounced as in many other countries (Italy is similar in that respect). Religion is a good example. The village of Schmieden (near LuBu) is traditionally Puritan while the neighbouring village of Öffingen is a very Catholic place because it was part of Bavaria until German unification. German Baden and French Alsace are more or less identical if we consider culture, food, architecture. It can be very confusing at times.

            • However, when I think of f.e. German music, it is not particularly from the north, or Bavaria. The classical composers are from all over the place, and my main preferences in rock and similar genres are from f.e. Berlin (Tangerine Dream, Einstürzende Neubaute), Cologne (Can), Düsseldorf (Kraftwerk, Neu!).

            • Nothing from the South … but then we have always been more into literature and philosophy (Goethe, Schiller (who went to school in LuBu), Mörike (who was born in LuBu), Hegel etc. … My favourite German classical composer is Brahms, who was from Hamburg. If we talk modern pop/rock etc., I’d pick Kraftwerk, Ideal and Grönemeyer. My favourite German text is Mörike’s ‘Peregrina’. <3

            • I don’t know Ideal and Grönmeyer. Will check them out.

            • Grönemeyer is mostly about his fantastic lyrics but you won’t understand what he is singing. Even Germans struggle to do so. You need to read them.
              Btw, it is very easy to tell that Pumpernickel is from the North. If it was a southern thing it would be called Pfumpfernickel because of the second sound shift. That’s the reason we have the towns of Porz (near Cologne) and Pforzheim (in BaWü), which was Porzheim until the sound shift. :)
              And several villages in BaWü even have French names today, Pérouse f. e. That one was founded after the sound shift and was therefore saved from being called Pférouse now. :)

            • Well I don’t always understand my own lyrics either…

            • ROFL

              Here is an early Grönemeyer:

              And the song he wrote after his wife’s early death:

              https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gr%C3%B6nemeyer+der+weg

              And one of my personal favourites (lyrics!!!):

            • You have to concentrate a lot while listening. There’s a lot of murmuring, so I didn’t get all of it. I like the music. Judging by the soundscape, “Angst” is from approximately 1986-1991.

            • Yes. He’s been around for a while and is Germany’s n° 1 superstar. I was surprised to hear that you didn’t know him. The lyrics of ‘Angst’ are extremely relevant right now with all of us facing right wing populism.
              Grönemeyer grew up in the city of Bochum and wrote my beloved VfL’s club anthem … called ‘Bochum’. :)
              Tieieieief im Weeeesten … ♫♪♫

            • I guess he is a sort of German Steffen Brandt, mostly known in Germany (and Austria and Switzerland?) whereas the ones I mentioned are better known internationally.

            • “Grönland”: A bit later. Easier to understand. Beautiful lyrics, but the music is a bit too monotonous for my taste.

            • I am a literary historian … ;)

            • And what about ‘Der Weg’?
              His early song ‘Tanzen’ has more outstanding and still relevant lyrics. :) :(
              It’s about Germany thinking that we always know best …

            • At least Amon Düül II were from Bavaria :)

            • Just to comfort your own taste? then you don’t really feel well i nthe community if you feel like you were out of place disliking Iceland, even though a few people disliked it a lot too (for instance Guitar was vocal about it)

            • I don’t dislike Iceland and have it in a respectable 17th place on my list. :)
              I just want as much diversity as possible.

            • I do think that Portugal being first for a few people, like Dominik, and disliked a lot by others, like 4Porcelli, prove we are quite diverse… and Iceland is mid table for many people Donny or Lina for instance, just like you ;)

              we are diverse, we’re just all sad that Anders seems very busy and not sharing our good ol’ esc fun! we’re glad he’s back for the off season at least!

            • the ET crowd was very divisive, on Iceland on one hand, on Portugal on the other and on Switzerland in the later. Why can’t it be that all of these entries are good, and for different reasons, without dividing one another?

  2. lad os håbe det!

  3. Do we have ETSC soon?

  4. Didn’t notice how much the juries don’t like Latvia :o

  5. The first major post-debates poll has come out from CNN. Biden at 22%, Harris at 17%, Warren at 15%, Sanders at 14%, and no other candidate above 5%. Biden dropped 10% since their last poll, Harris rose 8%, and Warren rose 7%. People are saying the primaries may turn into a race between Harris and Warren.

    • I’ve just seen a CNN report on said subject. Harris and Warren are better candidates. Later this month we should have a clearer picture. I hope there will be less people on stage. As far as I am concerned, Harris, Warren, Buttigieg and Castro are the ones that made an impression on me. The other ones either represent the past or a hollow future.

      Trump will not know what to do if he ever gets on a stage with Harris; he dislikes women who can talk back.

      • I’m not sure if we’ll see less candidates in July. Everyone who qualified for June is also qualified for July, plus Steve Bullock who reached the qualification threshold for only the July debates, so now one qualified candidate will be excluded based on a tiebreak unless we have some drop outs. Personally, I think we won’t see any drop outs until after July unfortunately; most are gonna want a second chance to debate, and the September debates are much harder to get into, so if they don’t qualify for that (which a lot probably won’t) they’ll drop out then.

      • Perhaps the gods heard our pleas. Just read an article about Hickenlooper: he only has donations from 13,000 individuals (the donor qualification was 65,000 individuals for the June/July debates but he qualified via polling, and the mandatory donor qualification for the September debate is 130,000 individuals), so it’s almost impossible that he’ll be able to move forward. Senior Democratic officials are urging him to drop out and run for Senate in Colorado (he’s a popular former Governor in a relatively blue state that has a Republican Senator up for reelection), if he doesn’t do it then he’s just a sheer narcissist. I expect Steve Bullock will be receiving the same pressure to run for Senate in Montana as well.

    • Oh, and Harris has still not made inroads into the black vote; she eventually will and then she will have it in the bag. I may be talking too soon. We should wait and see.

      • Yes, I agree. Obviously I’m not black so I can’t speak to African-American voter trends but I’ve read some articles about it and here’s what I’ve gathered. Black voters are so used to not being represented that they’ve become attached to who the best of the bunch seemed to be: the Clintons, Biden, etc. They continuously accepted apologies and overlooked their ignorance towards racial issues throughout the years because they had no other option. Now that reputable minority candidates are getting their time to shine, that mindset is going away in African-Americans and they are turning away from mainstream white politicians who were ignorant but slightly less ignorant than others, but it is a process. It took awhile for African-Americans to trust Obama ahead of Hillary Clinton (who they viewed as one of those white politicians who were ignorant but acceptable), but they eventually did. They will eventually trust Harris more than Biden as well, and it will be the end of his campaign. Warren will need someway to chip into that though, or the black vote will lead to Harris’s victory. Bernie never was popular with African-Americans, and that’s a major reason why he was unable to beat Hillary.

        Did you see Biden’s comment on LGBT people the other day? In Seattle (possibly one of the most liberal cities in the U.S. along with NYC and LA) he said that it was acceptable to openly mock gay people back in 2014. To any American who is pro-LGBT rights, obviously it was not. Really shows how out-of-touch he is and calls into question what his true opinions are.

  6. Note to Morgan: Check Klemens’ most recent insta pics. You’ll find an interesting one. :P

  7. This is turning out to be a very interesting political summer. If Jo Swinson wins in the UK and if Labour remain in their safe grey area, the Lib Dems can become a major force in British politics and we desperately need common sense.

    P.S. I – I’ve just rewatched for the umpteenth time ‘Born yesterday’ with Judy Holliday, which always makes me feel less gloomy about our future. :)

    P.S. II – Waiting calmly for the Fridas and ETSC.

    • Judy Holliday is fabulous and much underrated – did you ever geta chance to see her in Solid gold Cadillac?

      • She is. Not yet, unfortunately.

        • I can get you a link if interested let me know – it’s actually my favorite film of hers. What are your favorite films if I may ask?

          • Thanks, but I prefer to see her on the big screen. The Portuguese Cinematheque loves her as well. I will catch that one sooner or later.

            I do not have a favourite movie. I tend to love old movies. I especially love the comedies of past that were much more sophisticated and witty than the moderns ones. ‘Dinner at Eight’ comes to mind.

            • That’s great! In Germany unfortunately even when you do get a chance to see an old film on the big screen it unfortunately is usually synchronized, sigh.
              I love classic films as well – it seems while TV has gotten so much better, film has gotten so much worse – especially as you say on the dialogue and character development levels. Dinner at eight or The man who came to dinner indeed! I’m in a film noir phase right now; the good ones manage to be both gritty as well as pure artifice. In the good ones, too, it seems you want to memorize almost every line.

            • I love that genre as well.

            • A man of taste you are!
              Gilda is my favorite – Rita Hayworth as Gilda is probably the only woman I’ve ever been sexually attracted to. Which is sort of ironic considering the film’s massive gay subtext.

            • LOL There’s a whole world out there for us to discover. :D ‘Gilda’ is a jewel.

            • ‘Just put your lips together and blow.’

            • “I can never get a zipper to close. Maybe that stands for something, what do you think?”

            • Love that scene, have to re-watch that film! Perfect example of what’s so great about noir – especially the femme/homme fatal(e) ones – it’s pure artifice; nobody talks or acts like that but it works and I find it just mesmerizing.

            • I agree. I should have chosen a different clip though… LOL

            • Occasionally one of the neo-noirs still manages to get it right – she is Lana Turner.

    • Agreed, I used to tend to not follow European politics as parliamentary systems were confusing to my American brain until recently, but it is proving to be quite interesting. A Lib Dem rise to power is exactly what the UK needs to avoid themselves from following the dark path we have went down here in the US.

      • I am quite happy that German politics is mostly about coalitions and finding compromises. I also like the fact that our politics is more about concepts and ideas and less about individuals or leaders. Playing the strong man won’t get you far between Lörrach and Flensburg. :)

        • And that’s where American politics are weakest. Political parties are weak, it is all about individuals. We don’t even have party leaders, only unofficial leaders who are each party’s presidential nominees. The Democrats are so fragmented now because we have no leader after Hillary’s defeat. Everyone does their own thing and no one knows what ideas are best to take on Trump. And then we have have people like Mitch McConnell who say that if they’re Senate Majority Leader during a Democratic Presidency, he’ll have every piece of Democratic legislation blocked from a vote in the Senate. Our democracy in a nutshell :)

          • Doesn’t sound like a route to success in the 21st century. Nowadays it is all about compromises on the international stage. Better start practicing at home.

            • Exactly. Our system is so flawed and certain politicians are not making it any better. I think our political system also speaks to the general attitudes that Americans have towards compromise and working together with people they are different from. I don’t know where we can go from here now.

            • Perhaps the US Americans will have to learn the hard way. :(
              I am utterly dumbfounded by what is going on in the UK atm. Tiny England is behaving like the USA, refusing to compromise with Scotland, Labour, remainers or whoever … Having lived in a union of 4 nations for centuries, one would expect them to know better.

            • Yes, normally I expect my country to be the misbehaving one, but the UK is proving to be no different than us. I sure hope Scotland can get out sometime soon and save themselves from the insanity of Westminster.

            • Northern Ireland is in an even worse situation right now. :(

            • Yes :( It is a mess

    • Jo Swinson will probably become leader of the LibDems but I prefer the other candidate, who presented more convincing concepts in yesterday’s debate on Sky News. She would still be a good choice and much better than aynthing the Tories or Labour have on offer, except for Yvette Cooper perhaps, whose intellect I stand in awe of. Unfortunately, Ms Cooper doesn’t have a future in Momentum Labour. :(

  8. Here were my final rankings of ESC 2019:

    LOVE
    1. Portugal 🇵🇹
    2. Albania 🇦🇱
    3. Italy 🇮🇹
    4. The Netherlands 🇳🇱
    5. Norway 🇳🇴
    6. Czech Republic 🇨🇿

    LIKE
    7. Hungary 🇭🇺
    8. Sweden 🇸🇪
    9. Slovenia 🇸🇮
    10. Switzerland 🇨🇭
    11. Cyprus 🇨🇾
    12. Belgium 🇧🇪
    13. Malta 🇲🇹
    14. Azerbaijan 🇦🇿
    15. Latvia 🇱🇻
    16. Ireland 🇮🇪

    AVERAGE PLUS
    17. Iceland 🇮🇸
    18. Russia 🇷🇺
    19. Austria 🇦🇹
    20. Spain 🇪🇸

    AVERAGE
    21. Denmark 🇩🇰
    22. Estonia 🇪🇪
    23. Greece 🇬🇷
    24. Lithuania 🇱🇹
    25. Belarus 🇧🇾
    26. North Macedonia 🇲🇰
    27. Serbia 🇷🇸

    AVERAGE MINUS
    28. Armenia 🇦🇲
    29. Romania 🇷🇴
    30. Finland 🇫🇮

    DISLIKE
    31. Georgia 🇬🇪
    32. United Kingdom 🇬🇧
    33. Croatia 🇭🇷
    34. France 🇫🇷

    HATE
    35. Germany 🇩🇪
    36. Israel 🇮🇱
    37. Australia 🇦🇺
    38. Moldova 🇲🇩
    39. San Marino 🇸🇲
    40. Poland 🇵🇱
    41. Montenegro 🇲🇪

    • Overall I thought ESC 19 was pretty good! I loved more songs in 2018 and think 2018 was better but 2019 is probably a bit above 2015/17 and on par with 2015.

      I think ITA/NED were the best entries but purely as songs I liked Portugal/Albania the best and I decided to remain with that Top 2.

      Biggest risers were Slovenia and somewhat North Macedonia, biggest fallers were Ireland and Finland.

  9. Today is like a flashback to the summers we once had here in BaWü: blue skies, 25 degrees and a pleasant breeze. While I was on the Autobahn this morning, ‘Nessun grado di separazione’ came up in my playlist. What a beautiful song that still is. It is such a shame that Francesca coudln’t perform in convincingly.
    Most summer days these days bring either 35 degrees plus high humidity or torrential rain/hail/thunderstorms.

  10. What my top 10 looks like:

    • Spain? :-o

    • Oh yeah forgot to answer, nice I always like these country flags tops you do, the top feels more alive then ^^ Btw I dont know if I shared my whole top with anyone, but it looks something like this:

      1. Netherlands 17,5
      2. Norway 16,5
      3. Italy 16,5
      4. North Macedonia 16
      5. Iceland 15
      6. Australia 15
      7. Switzerland 15
      8. Slovenia 15
      9. Sweden 14,5
      10. Cyprus 14,5
      11. Russia 14
      12. France 13,5
      13. Albania 13
      14. Greece 13
      15. Spain 13
      16. Serbia 12,5
      17. Azerbaijan 12,5
      18. Lithuania 12,5
      19. Hungary 12
      20. Poland 11,5
      21. Portugal 11
      22. San Marino 11
      23. Armenia 11
      24. Malta 11
      25. United Kingdom 11
      26. Czech Republic 10,5
      27. Romania 10,5
      28. Croatia 10,5
      29. Austria 10
      30. Belgium 9,5
      31. Estonia 9
      32. Finland 8
      33. Belarus 7,5
      34. Germany 7,5
      35. Denmark 6,5
      36. Georgia 6
      37. Israel 4,5
      38. Montenegro 3,5
      39. Moldova 3,5
      40. Latvia 3,5
      41. Ireland 3,5

      My voting is a mix of the studio version and the live combined, so 0-20 points.

  11. This must be a joke … Flinten-Uschi is destined to become the next President of the European Commission??? ROFL

    • I actually think she could be a very good choice as the position plays to her strengths, schmoozing and PR (managing a huge bureaucracy like the Defense Dept. requires a bureaucrat not a politician and it’s where political careers go to die). I think the whole package is probably the strongest we’ve seen so far – 4 political heavyweights from 4 of the core European countries including for the heretofore rather neglected position of foreign policy chief..

      • I am verry happy to see Mr Michel in an important role but at the end of the day, Ms Merkel got her way again. After all, she said that she would find a solution without the Green Party the day after the elections …
        As for Uschi. Positives: She is decidedly pro-European. Negatives: She drives me crazy whenever I have to listen to her speaking. She always sounds like a very strict nanny pretending to be all soft, nice and understanding. I am not one of her 7 children. LOL

    • I think she may be a really interesting choice although i did favor Margrethe Vestager

      • Vestager seemed OK to me as well esp. considering Danish consensual type of politics. I was a bit irritated how she suddenly became a leading candidate for Liberal bloc the night of the election. I hope she’ll be Commission VP – not sure how many of those there are; I’d guess Timmermans will stay and they need to give sth. to one of the non-autocratic Eastern Europeans (probably Baltics).

        • What I like best about Uschi is that her very existence is a slap in the face of all EU haters:

          – born in Brussles
          – daughter of an EU official
          – attended the international school in Brussles

          If she becomes president, the Brexit loonies will get dizzy from all the back turning they will have to exercise.:)

          • Indeed I find it quite astonishing that Orban & co. supposedly were all in with her candidacy.

            • On the other hand, the SPD isn’t happy. Ms Barley said that she would vote NO!

            • There’s always someone who isn’t happy; I’d also prefer Timmermans (and Habeck to AKK/Merz).

            • At least those Farage Troupe clowns keep everyone entertained with their ludicrous gibberish …

            • I find them depressing actually. As you know I also have a Brit passport through my Scottish dad and I really can’t wait for this drama to be over and the UK to leave. They have – largely due to England – never really wanted to be in and have mostly created drama; Europe is an abstract concept to them that is “the other”.

            • Your father must be a sad man right now. :(
              Alas, that is true. When I arrived at Goldsmiths’ College in London in the 90s, I was surprised at the lack of knowledge about so many things Continental … and the lack of interest too. Literature students actually asked me whether it was normal to own a car in Germany, whether we had washing machines etc. Nobody had ever heard of Stuttgart and I kept repeating “between Munich and Paris”, which gave them a rough idea. If I had pulled out a map and had asked them to point their fingers to Stuttgart, the most accurate ones would probably have come to a rest somewhere between Milano and Grenoble nevertheless. Literature students had never heard the names Goethe, Balzac or Cervantes, and in a poetry class we had to write an essay arguing that Wordsworth ‘I wandered lonely as a cloud’ was superior to García Lorcas ‘De la muerte oscura’, which we got in a shabby translation. I thought that it was a witty approach and argued that the assumption was wrong and that texts needed to be evaluated in their cultural contxt, that you couldn’t compare apples and oranges, that this wasn’t an ESC of literature. I was very proud of my line of argument … and failed the class. LOL After 2 years, I gave up and returned to Tübingen …

            • My dad’s actually has closed the Scotland chapter a while back; he was not even interested in a trip back to Scotland when I suggested it and prefers to keep the memories.
              Sadly, most of the harbor cities we went to with the ship are now run-down Brexit hubs. I was in London for a week last month and found the atmosphere kind of sad, people looking harrowed or moving exclusively in their bubbles (the rich, the hipsters, their expat communities). I was visiting my Italian ex who’s been living there for about a year and a half and he almost exclusively socialized with Italians, which is not his usual way. He had zero use for the English esp. in work environment. It was interesting. Still lots of great stuff about London but definitely a Blade Runnerish feeling for me.

            • I love London so much that I won’t return for the foreseeable future. Just like your dad, I prefer to keep my memories untainted.
              We can see in England now what you get if you run down a country and keep pointing the fingers elsewhere. The run-down port towns are a primary example of that. Why do most other countries in Europe do not face this problem? At least the people of Liverpool know that their city was saved by the EU … but that doesn’t help them when you get an Anne Widdecombe into the EU parliament. She’s the very embodiment of a nasty old lady that gets very angry everytime her neighbour’s children noisily play in the street.

            • Centralization is a huge part of the problem. I think someone on here said the other day that the UK has the experience of beimg foru countries but that’s of course not true. NI (and until the 20s all of Ireland was/is beimg treated like a colony amd Scotland and Wales are seen as provincial backwaters. As is, for that matter, much of England outside of London. So that contributes massively to the centralization – which is further strengthened by geography in climate. Unlike in e.g. France there just aren’t many places other than the capital where you’d want to live. Sure people will go to Bordeaux or Nice or Strasbourg but who wants to live in Manchester, Liverpool or Glasgow?

            • I have friends in Liverpool and they love being there, and one of my cousins is living in Edinburgh atm, which seems to be a great place too if we leave the weather aside …
              I wrote that in a reply to Lina, and I was being sarcastic. LOL I proudly hold an MA in British literature and history after all.

            • Oh I’m sure there are people who like being there but they’re just not a comparable draw to many second-tier cities in e.g. France, Germany or Poland.

            • In France, I like Bordeaux and Toulouse a lot but my absolute favourite is Montpellier. <3

            • What’s most depressing is that it won’t be over whatever happens. If the withdrawal agreement is signed, the real negotiations will only begin, and if no deal is reached, things will become even more torterous and messy. And if the UK remain, the Stab-in-the-back myth will become even more prominent among certain segments of English politics and society. And just imagine the mess the UK would make of the EU in such a scenario. :(
              It’s utterly frustrating!

            • It’s really bizarre how this internal Tory party war has become a national illness. and how the Tories of all people just endlessly repeat “it’s the will of the people” yet refuse another vote or to consider “the people”. There’s still this class thinking and as you said the educational system is dreadful. I’ve often found working with colleagues from UK the most frustrating since they don’t really understand what you want to do monj an international project and will just say “amazing…I didn’t know that” and then do their own thing. Far more frequent than with colleagues from other countries.

            • The Tory party post-2000 will go down as the organization that did most damage to Britain in the nation’s history. Historians won’t be nice to them.

      • She isn’t Manfred Weber, and that’s a plus …

        • A truly bizarre choice… the CDU/CSU definitely going full-fledged provincial Catholic in their choices. Hopfeully this will lead to Green-Red-Red but I fear we’ll end up with Merz and Lindner.

  12. I am generally OK with nominees…. my favourites were of course Margrethe Vestager or Guy Verhofstadt from ALDE, as well as socialist Frans Timmermans, but I admit that it’s fair that EPP should have a position of the president of Comission, as they are relative winners of EU elections.
    I don’t know much about Mrs. von der Leyen, but she seems to be a better choice then other EPP potential candidates.

    Christine Lagarde is an obvious and a very good choice for the president of the ECB, and I don’t understand why did ALDE nominate Charles Michel for the European Council President, in stead of Verhofstadt, who was their frontrunner, and is more experienced.

    • von der Leyen is actually slightly left of center so about as good a candidate as you could get from EPP. She was one of the few CD politicians to vote in favor of gay marriage – which probably cost her the chancellorship but she stands poised to get a bigger prize now. I’ve only ever voted SocDem, Green or Left Party and I think she’s a good choice.

      • that’s reassuring to a French leftie like me!

        • Yes I wouldn’t defend a CD-politician if they weren’t. I think she’s probably quite similar to Macron on most issues and a bit to the left of him on economic issues.

      • She is quite liberal for christian democrat standards but there is also quite a whiff of scandal surrounding her time at the defense ministry. Like Juncker with his country’s secret tax avoidance schemes, it seems being compromised is a requirement for the job.

        Other than that, it seems that it is not enough for the Commission president to do what Berlin says, now they have to be german as well. They do not even care about the optics of this anymore.

        • As I mentioned in a previous comment, v d Leyen is really much more cut out for this job – which entails a lot of schmoozing and PR – than for her current job at Defense, which is about managing a large and – I think in most countries – inherently corrupt bureaucracy.
          As for “they now have to be German as well” – the (incompetent) candidate of the, alas, biggest party was German so undoubtedly that played a part in Macron’s thinking as well; this after all was apparantly his idea. I’m sure everyone would have prepared someone flawless like Varoufakis but he probably didn’t want to give up his cushy lecturing gigs. On the whole I think for the first time we have a slate of nominess that consists entirely of political heavyweights unlike e.g. the last two foreign affairs “ministers”. A bit centre-right heavy for my taste but none of them too far to the right like Weber or someone from Polish, Hungarian, etc. governing parties.

          • So you don’t think the Commission also manages a huge bureaucracy? I am also sure you understand that out of 27 countries, there are a lot of people to choose from other than Varoufakis. The
            fact that the main countries (France included) don’t even think they need to keep up appearances anymore (the press has even adopted the german term “spitzenkandidat” for the europarliament elections) is rather new and rather poignant.

            • I think 65 percent of the population plus x (majority) of countries have to approve of these nominations . Unlike some other things then this is majority rule; thank God, otherwise nothing would get done. As is little enough gets done, e.g some country’s refusal to take in refugees.

            • Actually no, the president of the commission is simply approved by a majority of EU parliamentarians. But perhaps you are right about political heavyweights, i.e. people from the major powers. It may be better to have the people who actually call the shots be in charge rather than keeping up a charade for the sake of appearances.

            • What would be your preferred approach? Keeping in mind that there is unfortunately e.g. nothing close to a Green majority.

            • A green majority? God forbid…

            • LOL will never happen; it seems they are overwhelmingly a – west – German phenomenon. Question still stands: What would have been your preferred approach this go-round? Keeping in mind the framework and distribution of seats/governments we have.

            • The germans have always been very ardent naturists and romanticists :) My preferred approach would be a more diplomatic one at this particular juncture. It seems we are going with naked power politics.

              And now that Macron will get his wish and have a french person at the ECB, it would be interesting to see whether Lagarde still thinks that the greek debt is unsustainable and creditor countries need to provide it with a hefty haircut as was her official position at the head of IMF. Or do her positions change depending on her employer?

            • This was actually the essence of diplomatic horse-trading to me; I’m actually surprised that the autocratic or barely democratic Eastern European countries like PL, HU, ROM seemed to be content with this.
              Lagarde will be interesting to observe; we’ll see if she’s primarily an institutionalist or focused on national interest. I really have no idea what the solution is for the problem of Greek debt (or for the slide to authoritarianism in some Eastern countries – or a fair distribution of refugees).

            • Greek debt is a real problem that has costed and will continue to cost billions (the question is who is going to bear that cost). Migrants don’t want to be distributed; they want to end up in partucular places like Germany, the UK and scandinavian countries. Poland and Hungary are growing robustly compared to the rest of the european economies despite their shrinking populations. They threaten nobody except Guardian readership who wants to feel enlightened compared to those regressives in the east european backwoods ;)

  13. It is quite embarrassing to see English Brexit enthusiasts arguing that the EU appropriated Beethoven by making his ‘Ode to Joy’ the EU anthem and degrading the (in their opinion sanctimoneous) nation state. Both Beethoven and Schiller, who wrote the lyrics, were internationalists who would have retched at the idea of the nation state. Shows the level of education those people have … LOL :(

  14. Another gem from Mahmood:

  15. I just discovered the French version of Lithuania 2012 <3

  16. Some more on yesterday’s EU nominations..

    My biggest objection is nomination of Spanish Foreign Affairs Minister Borrell for the position of High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security!
    Not only does he comes from a country which has (in last 10-15 years) on many occasions confronted its allies on some very important international issues, but also his own political bio is not very reassuring.

    What’s more, he comes from PSOE school of diplomacy, influenced by notorious rusophile Angel Moratinos, who (during his own time in foreign office) has led very irresponsible foreign and security policy.

    I can not imagine Borrell being objective in his responsibility to carry out EU interest in some very important issues, such as relations with Russia, war in Syria etc.

    • Thanks for that info; didn’t know that – does not sound good. In that case one can only hope the position remains as ineffective as it has been so far…

      • Ms Mogherini was nice enough as long as she did as told (by Berlin and Paris). When she started to do some freelancing towards the end of her time in office things became a tad awkward …

        • I’ve really never noticed either her or her predecessor (Ashton?) doing much of anything. What’s interesting in retrospect is that they were physically about as different as two women could be.

  17. It’s the last day to vote in Fridas latest polls. Im going ti see Tom Holland’s ass in big at the Grand Rex so probably should post results tomorrow evening :)

  18. Buttigieg has officially joined my shit list along with Biden and Hickenlooper. Said in an interview he wants to expand the military and military opportunities, and to create a culture where one year of national service is the norm for all 18 year olds. I know the latter is done in some countries in Europe, but I am absolutely not okay with either of these proposals at all. The military needs to be shrunken down and given less of a focus, not the opposite.

    • I see your point, but public service never harmed anyone and it may be a very educational experience. What needs to be shrunken are the industries that stem from the military.

      • As an American, we used to have the draft which absolutely ruined many people’s lives (my grandpa would have been drafted but avoided actually enlisting as he was a teacher which was deemed essential; if he was actually drafted, I may not be here today considering how many young boys who weren’t even allowed to vote yet died only 40-50 years ago), and the effects of which we are still facing. I understand not everyone goes on to actual military service as there is still civilian service, but there is still a bad taste in people’s mouths from our history. Personally, I am going into law which requires 7-8 years of education. I would absolutely not lose an extra year of what should be the best time of my life to serve a country whose missions I do not support. I’d say many Americans my age also agree with that.

        But regardless, we should NOT be encouraging people to join the military with the current state of the American military. We lie to at-risk youth that their lives will be great, but then once they enlist they are treated horribly, leave with mental illnesses, and are unable to get help or treatment. I have seen too many people in my actual life who have been affected by this, and have been left to commit suicide or simply never get their lives together again. We should by no means be inviting more people to be manipulated by this system. The military budget should be massively decreased, not expanded, and that money should be spent on education, healthcare, childcare, etc.

        • I hear you. In Portugal, quite a few people join the armed forces, because they have top notch schools.

          • It is the opposite here. Yes there are the military academies which are good schools, but these universities are very small and about the size of large high schools. The overwhelming majority of people who go into the military are young troubled teenagers who feel like they are not smart enough to go to university, and not skilled enough to go into the workforce. Instead, we should focus on education, equipping these teenagers with the skills necessary to enter the workforce (we have absolutely no form of vocational schooling here), instead of stripping them of their self-confidence and giving them PTSD in wars they don’t even know why we’re fighting.

            That brings up another point, I’d say most of Europe (including Portugal) is rather peaceful. We are in war constantly here. One of my best friend’s boyfriend joined the military and is constantly in fear of a war with Iran because her boyfriend will be deployed to fight. It is always war time here.

    • We used to have 18 months of compulsory military service back in my days. I decided to do alternative service for 24 months. Doing that wasn’t easy in the 80s. You had to argue your case in front of a commission of old and grumpy men where you had to lie everyone in the face, f. e. saying that you wouldn’t use violence if you saw your sister being raped. It was a disgrace. In the end, I worked on a ward treating patients with terminal cancer, and as weird as that might sound, it was one of the best times of my life. I met may fantastic nurses who discussed philosophy during the breaks, matured rapidly and evetually decided not to study medicine (I already had a place at university) but literature. All’s well that ends well. :)

      • I understand that many people may have had good experiences with it, but the fact you had to go through that much just to avoid having to resort to violence is disgusting. I do not want to spend a year of my life working in a job I don’t want to do when my law education is long and hard, and I’d like to begin my career sooner than later. As I said to my comment to Shevek, we have a complicated history with conscription (18 year old boys are still required to register with the military in case we do have a draft), and it has become more of the norm to argue against this registration and potential draft entirely, not to implement a national conscription for everyone. That is simply not a tenant Americans will get behind.

        • I think thatit is good for young people to get a wider perspective before starting their careers. If I hadn’t had that experience, I would probably have become a career doctor. Perhaps I would even have won the Nobel Prize by now. LOL
          And there are some very precious memories that will stay with me. We had a 24 year old woman who was dying from breast cancer. When it became evident that she would never again be able to leave her bed, her bf married her in the hospital room. He also adopted her 2 year old twins. I was in the room all the time. Experiences like this one give you a better perspective, more worthy priorities and an existential ethical frame of reference imo. Other people might get there without doing sth useful but it defiitely benefitted me.

          • Well I understand that these are important memories for you that have helped you, but I personally know more people that were hurt by conscription than helped. I had considered joining the U.S. Peace Corps to teach English abroad, but I simply do not have enough room in my 20s do so and I don’t want to end up looking back with regrets because my 20s were all school/work/volunteering. I want time to simply discover myself without these overarching responsibilities and make lasting memories. I believe it should be the individual’s choice above all rather than a government mandate.

            • I don’t believe in individualisms because most people are egoistic idiots who only think about how to best design their own lives. That’svery decadent imo, in particular for people living in obscenely affluent Western countries. When it comes to this issue, I support the ancient Roman concept of virtus 100 %.

            • Well I guess we’ll agree to disagree on all of that. Conscription is a human rights abuse imo.

      • I’m working in an hospital specialized in cancer. Weird feelings of doing well (working on creation of the first poliative department) but its too depressive and I can’t get used to it. Probably I’ll change the job. I think to submit our anthem in upcoming ETSC if it is held.

        • I got used to it quite quickly.
          ETSC has already been confirmed. :)

        • Most important/relevant jobs are depressing to do! I did a few years of teaching in “tough” high schools here in France, and I came home very disappointed by my own teaching, thinking I was useless and pointless. But if you’re doing something right, keep your heads up and keep at it until you can’t take it no more! Good luck.

    • Buttigieg has impressed me as a person with a plan just like Warren. One may not agree with all they say, but it’s good to know that the American voters can count on such people.

  19. I have just watched the Jeremy Hunt interview on Channel 4. What a slimy and pathetic little man he is, no values, no backbone … a ridiculous turncoat licking the asses of affluent white retired males living in the Home Counties … but an ETREPENEUR!!! *faints* Everyone in the EU is laughhing their asses off …

    Get a reality check. Why do you think China are doing what they are doing to Hong Kong right now? I’ll give you a clue, Mr. Hunt … the correct answer begins with a B … The seat on the UN security council will be history too in the next 10 years. Big sigh …

  20. It’s so funny to watch post-ESC top 41 clips in which the German etry is always on mute for copyright reasons. As if anyone wanted to listen to that thing again. LOL
    #makefoolsofyourselves

    • LOLOLOL really??? That’s priceless!!! Ties in with the overall promotional strategy I guess… then again maybe they’re just being kind and try to protect people from having to hear that sstär! sistär! shouting. I literally had a nightmare with that passage.

  21. There is an evident link between winning Eurovision and football (see Greece 04/05 or Portugal 16/17, Germany is a bit further apart at 10/14) so Duncan winning, which was thought to forshadow Ajax, may have been a sign of the girls doing something to the American team in the final ;)

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