380 Comments

ETSC 7: New Rules?


ETSC – Every year, the summer is the calm after the storm so it’s the perfect time to resume the highly anticipated the Eurovision Times Song Contest! Each one of you can represent an European country and get to send a song and then vote in a fake Eurovision! Signing up opens soon!

Each summer, a good number of regular readers stay around for different reasons (they don’t get breaks from work or don’t go on holidays…) but there aren’t much news to keep us going. So the last few years we introduced all sort of games. The Eurovision Times Awards (Fridas) and the Douze Points Trivia Quiz kept us going in 2013 and Fridas have made come-backs the past four years. Three years ago, a lot of you asked for a fake Eurovision where each one of us would send songs and get to vote. And that was it: the Eurovision Times Song Contest, from then on known as ETSC.

We’ve therefore had 6 editions of ETSC. In August 2016 however, for the first time the contest was won by a small margin: only 1pt (it was the first time there was less than 12pts difference between the winner and the runner-up). That opened up discussions and a lot was said between members, a lot left to be discusses. Some members do better than others, on a regular basis. Some countries tend to do better and people find unfair the system of first-arrived gets to pick his/her country first. Some people accused others to not play fair. Considering the amount of time I spend on the contest all by myself, it all left a bittersweet taste in my mouth and I wasn’t sure I wanted to keep it up. Also, this year took me to a new place in my life. S I wasn’t sure I would have the time for it. But… I’m pretty sure ET regular readers want to play still and I feel this anchored itself as a summer classic. Let’s check it first:

So the chances are very high we’ll have an ETSC 7. Now, should we get new rules for it? It’s time to discuss things further before we go on.

Once we get results for these and discuss things further, we can open up the signing up for ETSC 7. Don’t hesitate to discuss things before voting on the poll in the comments below.

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380 comments on “ETSC 7: New Rules?

  1. Personally I would be OK with not being able to pick the same country two times in succession. But not being able to play a country I have had before at all, that’s going too far, and I am not sure if I would want to participate under that condition.

    It puts too much focus on countries, and too little on the music. And in the end I might be left with some countries whose music scenes I can’t really connect with. It may be I can find a fine song, but if it doesn’t represent what I stand for musically, it takes the fun away. Sure if I spend 30 hours searching, I might find something that is 100% me in the end, but I don’t really have the time for that.

    What I normally do is searching for songs by f.e. reading album reviews, finding lists of bands and musicians within a genre, THEN check out which country they are from, and at last reserve accordingly. This has brought me from Japan via Serbia, Gambia, Argentina, Poland and then back to Japan.

    • Well, I see your point and you provide fair argumentation tbh.
      There could still be a compromise. What about you can’t have a country you picked within the last 3 editions?

    • The only time I actually reserved a country without having a song, was in ETSC 6 when I chose Russia. I assumed that with such a big country it would be easy to find something, but it actually turned out to be more difficult than I thought. I had to go through a lot of very dark and low-key rock songs before I finally found Dvar, almost by accident…

    • Agreed 100%. Excellent comment.

    • Also, I like some types of music better than others, and just as I can not vote for anything, I can not participate with anything either. I am more keen on sending f.e. folk, singer-songwriter and experimental rock than mainstream pop or hiphop.

      Still I think the songs I have sent so far are pretty diverse, even if many of them are from Denmark:

      ETSC 1: Experimental / industrial
      ETSC 2: Electro rock
      FdlC 6: “Playful rock” (so they called their music themselves)
      FdlC 7: “Singer-songwriter rock”
      ETSC 3: Singer-songwriter
      ETSC 4: Indie rock
      FdlC 10: Pop/rock
      FdlC 11: Singer-songwriter
      FdlC 12: Britpop
      FdlC 13: “Singer-songwriter rock”
      ETSC 5: Experimental
      ETSC 6: Darkwave
      FdlC 14: Dub/reggae
      FdlC 15: 60’s sounding pop mixed with traditional Japanese art music
      FdlC 16: Rock
      FdlC 17: “Afro-rock” / jazz
      FdlC 18: Folktronica
      FdlC 19: Modern Polish folk music
      FdlC 20: Zeuhl, prog rock, jazz

  2. Since many people voted for changes in countries’ claiming and exclusion of previous picks seems like the most logical and practical choice ftm I suggest Morgan opens a new poll regarding the number of editions you have to go back in order for a country to be eligible to claim again in your top 5.
    a)3 editions (meaning you can’t claim again your picks from ETSC 6 &5)
    b)5 editions (ETSC 6 & 5 4 & 3 excluded)
    c)7 editions (All your ETSC previous picks excluded)

    Also I would open a specific “Do you want a blind edition”? (2nd most popular suggestion)
    a)YES
    b)No

    And that’s all for me. Let us roll with ETSC 7 <3
    #Morgan
    #Bear_with_us

  3. .Ok.My anticipation for the next ETSC is in a downward spiral. It’s running late and people create unnecessary obstacles.Leave the country selection as it is.I really don’t know how this all discussion to put restrictions on countries claims began but it was a really bad idea.The main point of contention last year was a few peoples belief that other HoDs vote for their friends and not the actual songs.Instead of that and for some days now we’re discussing what rules should be implemented to limit our choices.Most of us pick songs and not countries as it was said before sothis debate is becoming extremely unpleasant.

    • Ermmm, 13 people believe the country claiming is unfair and 9 suggested a blind edition. It’s your prerrogative to ignore their concern but it’s not as if the majority wants no changes at all…That’s how democracy works. We discuss things together to work things out and bring the best out of it. If people’s only concern is to rush another edition, I really feel sorry for Morgan who genuinely thought it was a good idea to give us some space to discuss things with him

      • I don’t really think that country allocation is unfair; it’s just that some people do not want to leave their known universe, due to lack of time or something else and that is their prerogative. I find it more interesting to try to find new songs, singers, perpectives and I like to spend some time doing that. I have a hectic live and focusing on finding a song that I love is relaxing. Morgan is trying to make things better; things can only get better, if people vote for songs and not names. Trust is paramount here, as Morgan said yesterday.

        • Well you are right. I wouldn’t call it exactly unfair either. The country allocation seems practical and logical. It’s the way we use it that is wrong. Personally I wouldn’t like to deprive a popular country (or any country) from another HoD more than once!

          • Indeed. I came across a Swedish singer that I love. I shall try to get Sweden next ETSC 7. I won’t get it most certainly, but I will give it a try at least. :)

            P.S. – I have another song that I love from a country that will most probably not be chosen.

            • *for ETSC 7.

              P.S. – the orchestration is very good. I hope I get it.

            • Same here. 2 extremely popular countries and 2 really “unwanted” in my agenda for ETSC 7 & 8. I’m pretty sure I’ll end up with the “unwanted” again as in the four last editions :)

      • And 14 people voted for no change at all.So that beats the 13 who voted for countries restrictions to be implemented.Country claiming isn’t unfair.It’s the most fair it can be.What you propoese is unfair.
        Also,i’m in no rush to have the next ETSC edition.I just think that matters keep arising out f nowhere.Also,as i can remember your main issue last year was people voting for their friends.I haven’t seen you addressing that at all.

        • 13 + 9 outnumbers 14…
          I’ve adressed the blind edition theme already…
          Current claiming country formula is fair. The way certain people use it by picking up the same countries again and again isn’t!

          • However,you can’t just add up 13+9.I voted for a blind edition but not for a change in the way we claim the countries.They’re 2 totally different things.

          • You’re talking about certain countries or any country in general?

            • What u mean?

            • You said that certain people pick the same countries all the time.Are you talking about certain “popular” countries or all countries in general?I;m just trying to figure out what the problem is.

            • All countries in general. I don’t think the concept of sticking to a country adds to diversity. Let different people try different countries and share different approaches.

            • But that’s not very democratic.You’re trying to impose your view on what the contest should be about on others.If we all have the same starting point i don’t see what’s the problem.The proposed ammendment doesn’t make the costest fairer,it just satisfies the idea someone may have in their head of what ETSC should be about.It’s like you’re saying Avat f.i shouldn’t be representing Armenia.I’m not suggesting that if you really want to represent Armenia you shouldn’t claim it.Far from it.What i’m saying is that you don’t have to ban Avat from claiming it in order to represent the country.

            • I’m not imposing anything, I made a suggestion. You do understand the difference right? The moment 13 people voted for changes in country claiming, someone had to suggest something. The first thing that came to my mind is that maybe we could skip our previous picks (max 6) in next editions. I of course included myself in it.
              Morgan has the final word on this. You don’t need to feel “threatened” by a simple suggestion I made.

          • Actually you made me curious to see what countries everyone picked in each edition of ETSC and this is what I found:
            – out of 67 HoDs (in total) 34 participated in at least 4 editions;
            – out of these 34 HoDs 7 of them picked a certain country more than twice (I’m not including Morgan here btw), what’s interesting is that none of these countries were very popular (some not popular at all like MAL, ARM, LAT) and all of these HoDs actually picked more than 2 times their own countries which makes total sense if you think about it and them not beeing among the most popular makes all this very reasonable imo.
            – also something else I noticed is that no one picked very popular countries (like SWE, UK, NOR) in more than 2 editions and that makes it all pretty balanced imo.

            • To be fair, I had Denmark in 4 out of 6 editions, but when Guitar said he wanted it in ETSC 4, I just claimed something else :-)

            • And that’s fine if you ask me cause it’s your home country and most people know best the music industry from their own country. It’s not like you claimed UK, or USA (well not possible but could be in FdlC) 4 times.
              From what I noticed it’s pretty hard to claim the popular countries too many times (no matter how fast you are) cause the competition is big so that means that Denmark was not that popular.

            • I have only tried to get UK once in ETSC, but DIno got it instead. I have tried to get UK once in FdlC, with success, but I am not planning to do so for the next editions. My first priority for ETSC 7 atm. is Turkey.

            • I genuinely can say I have no songs besides French ones for ETSC: I could find british ones easily (but for popular artists that I know here in France so probably in all of you guys’ countries too :/)

            • That’s ok, you’re doing all the work and making all this possible so you deserve to pick whatever country you want. :)
              I kind of have the same problem with UK, most of the songs I know are from artists that are at least a bit known so I always have doubts if I should pick it.

    • It’s a question of trust. I vaguely remember what happened a year ago. It seems that some people kept voting for their friends, at least that is what I recall. If that is true, they’re insulting everyone here and should leave. I prefer to believe that no one is doing that. As far as my anticpation goes, it’s alive and well (and eager to listen to songs :) )

      • Yes,it’s a question of trust.There were some voting patterns that were hard to be ignored but people were saying that they voted for their favorite songs.There’s no way someone else can argue that wasn’t the case.At the end of the day,i won’t bother.If someone is actually voting for people instaed of songs they are losers but there’s nothing i can do about that.

  4. At this point, I prefer everything to stay the way it has been in the past but I don’t understand the hurry either. Does it really matter whether ETSC 7 kicks off tomorrow or in two weeks? Not to me. Plus, we don’t even have the FdlC 20 results yet.

    • There is a good reason though why people want ETSC 7 to kick of sooner rather than later and that’s because we’re a week late compared to the last years and if we wait another 2 weeks as you said that would most likely mean that there won’t be an ETSC 8 cause ETSC 7 won’t end until middle August (at least) and there won’t be time to do another one (except if we go into September which I wouldn’t mind but doesn’t seem likely) and that would be pretty sad, to break the tradition of 2 editions per year/summer (which is not a lot in the first place).

      • It wouldn’t be the end of the world though imo. I feel that we should think less about what we want but more about what Morgan feels comfortable with. There has been rather disrespectful pressure on Morgan imo. :(

        • That’s a fair point and you are right, he should only do it if he’s up for it and has the time, but all I’m saying is that it’s understandable why people may want to hurry a bit.

      • I don’t mind August edition ending early september! there are no esc news in that time either!

    • Well we do need to wait for FdlC results, and in general we start so early we’re done by 15th of August lol

  5. Allow me to express one more idea to somehow try to attenuate the CPP (“country picking problem”.

    What if, in each ETSC edition, there was a group of non-EBU “country guests”? For this edition, for example, Morgan would choose 5 non-EBU countries that could be Hosted.

    Would that contribute to enlarge the possibilities of more members? Instead of 55 countries, we would have a bag with 60. If, from that group of countries, one (or more) was not picked in that given edition, it would automatically be a “guest” in the next edition. The previlege of choosing the “Guest countries” could even be given to the winner.

    • Non-EBU “country guests” opens up a whole range of possibilties I guess !

      • Hi, Paul. Are you on Etsc too?

        • Unfortunately I am not, like always, although I try to keep track of it, especially as last year my favourite singer for Spain lost by 1 point :-( I am married with family and a journalist so very little time , but as you/I mentioned above maybe the ETSC could include some extra Europe stuff this year :-) keep me posted!

  6. Andorra in ESC, here we live and learn via Catalonia , Catalan language and future of Catalonia/Andorra! via Spanish state, personally I hate Gisela song the most, and Catalonia loves Jenny’s song the most..forever! (me too, so underestimated! ) :-)

  7. La la la la la………
    Hi there. just skipping through…….
    Oh, by the way did I mention that I’d really really really really love to be able to give extra points to more songs? I did? Oh! :/
    Anways a Top 15 would be truly wonderful although I would be happy with even a Top 12. Again, it would be interesting to see what change/if any it would make but It at least would be a further feel good factor for everyone surely? That would be nice imo.
    To clarify, am not asking for a complete voting change just let’s be able to have a few more votes…….
    Big Please.

    • have no idea what you were talking about there to be honest but take the opportunity to say hi and lalala etc :-)

      • I agreed on an earlier post about extra votes in ETSC rather than just Top 10, it’s not much for over 40 songs, I personally and to an extent I think a few others wouldn’t mind being able to extend the voting to include extra songs, it may not make a difference but I think it would be a nice feeling. That’s all really lol :)
        Hope you’re good Paul :)

        • ok, am good man, you know I’m hoping to check out my Irish heriitage soon , in Castledawson up north and Navan down south, hoping it will work out :-)

          • Then you should also make a wee trip west and pop along to our little corner. You’d like it am sure.

  8. Ok we should really get this edition going and take these discussions later. The timing for changing the rules could not come at a worse time. It is already the 8th of July. These changes are gonna take time and it is better to discuss them in september, when all is said and done. The country selection is not that important for me anymore as its already works tbh. I retract my vote there! The blind edition sure lets give it a try, but can we please just start!

  9. I reviewed the sign up articles of ETSC 3 to ETSC 6 a bit.
    If we exlcude FRA these are the most popular countries according to the order they were claimed :

    1. UK (Claimed 10th, 7th, 8th and 1st)
    2. FIN !!!! (#8, #9, #6, #4)
    3. UKR !!!! (#11, #6, #3, #14)
    4. DEU (#6, #13, #10, #6)
    5. SWE (#2, #16, #11, #9)
    6. NLD (#9, #11, #1, #18)
    7. ISL (#14, #10, #12, #5)
    8. NOR (#5, #15, #13, #11)
    9. DNK (#18, #8, #9, #10)
    10. GRC (#15, #3, #17, #12)

    Just missing :
    IRL (#12, #4, #7, #26)

  10. I have now my list ready:
    Six countries, four (geographical) regions :)

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