Editorial: Letter To “The Guardian”

Posted: May 27, 2012 by eurovisiontimes in Eurovision Song Contest 2012, United Kingdom

  United Kingdom – Engelbert Humperdinck’s failure at last night’s Eurovision Song Contest was sure to create some reactions in the UK press. I expected tabloids like “The Sun” and such to blame the bad result on the evil east and the political voting as usual, but when I had to read an article by the (in my view) respected Guardian, I just could not resist to write an answer. Here is my letter to Mark Lawson, the author of “A belligerent Eurovision night fit for a broken Europe

Dear Mr. Lawson,

I have recently read your article about the Eurovision Song Contest 2012 and was surprised about its factual inaccuracy considering it was published on the website of the respected newspaper “The Guardian”. Apart from the factual errors that I will designate, there are a few opinions I will be trying to refute.

You suggest that the United Kingdom has experienced “decades of defeat“.  The last victory by the United Kingdom was in 1997. The UK additionally came second in 1998, third in 2002 and 5th in 2009. To talk about decades of defeat is surely an exaggeration, no?

Furthermore, you suggest that “Azeri TV took the unusual step of showing the external scrutineers from Eurovision, present to remove doubt about the counting.” If you had done the necessary research, you would know that this asking the supervisor of the EBU, whether the voting is ready, is a very old tradition and is the annual ritual before the voting begins, no matter whether the final is in Azerbaijan, Germany (2011) or Norway (2010). Additionally, it is the independent company Digame, based in Cologne, Germany that collects the votes from all over Europe. Manipulation from the part of the host broadcaster is thus almost impossible!

You suggest also, that there are voting blocks due to political friendship in Eurovision. While that is not completely wrong it would be nice to go a bit more in-depth. Yes, Cyprus and Greece usually exchange their 12 points and yes, that is not entirely based on the song. This time however, the Cypriot song was a hit in Greece, charting in the Greek itunes chart on #2 before the final. Both the Greek and Cypriot song were arguably part of the same musical genre. It is not surprising, that Greece votes for a song similar to the one it chose in its national final.

You also say that Serbia and Montenegro swapped their 12 points. That is impossible, as Montenegro did not qualify to the final of the Eurovision Song Contest 2012. It is true that Montenegro gave 12 points to Serbia. You have to consider, however, that the Serbian representative , Zeljko Joksimovic, is close to a legend in all Balkan countries. These countries share a music market and a cultural background. If the UK split into England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and England sent Adele , where do you think the Scottish votes would go?

Last but not least you attribute the fact that Germany and Greece ignored each other to tensions in the Euro crisis. While there is another factual mistake! (Germany awarded Greece 1 point!) you do not mention, that Greece also did not vote for France, which just elected a president that could favor Greek interests or for Spain, which are in a similar situation. On the whole the German song did not get points from too many countries (high marks from Denmark, Hungary, Ireland helped it into the Top 10), as did the Greek song. It seems as if you use untrue arguments to proof your opinion.

Now to more subjective problems I have with your article:

If the contest is completely political and only countries that profit from block voting do well, how come Germany, that has virtually no friends in traditional voting pattersn, made it into the Top 10 three years in a row, even winning in 2010? Why did Sweden win with top marks from Norway, Denmark, Finland but also from Russia, Israel and Hungary?

Why is the winning song from Sweden number 1 on the British iTunes charts, and Engelbert Humperdinck’s song is nowhere to be seen?

And if you criticize Montenegro for supporting Serbia, what do you say about the United Kingdom giving 10 points to Jedward from your neighbouring country, Ireland? The arguments may be: Jedward are stars in the United Kingdom, they appear in British television shows, many people know them,there are many Irish people living in the UK and they sang in a language British people understand. That’s why the UK gave its 10 points to Ireland. Why did Montenegro give its 12 points to Serbia? Zeljko Joksimovic is a superstar in Montenegro, he appears on Montenegrin television shows, many people know him and there are many Serbian people living in Montenegro, he sang in a language (Serbian) that Montenegrin people understand. Why is one political and the other one isn’t?

And now something very subjective:

Personally (as well as the people watching with me and many people commenting on the Internet), I thought the UK entry was terribly old-fashioned and dull. The staging was to conservative and Humperdinck did not sing too well, either. I saw a video from the jury dress rehearsal (where the juries that accounted for 50% of the result voted), where he sounded terribly off-key. He may have been a big star, but that was years ago. I never heard of him before the BBC’s announcement.

I love the UK, I love your language, your music, your literature, but no way in hell would I have voted for a song like that! I would suggest that you lighten up a little and learn to see the big picture. As a non-journalist I would also suggest you get your facts right next time!

Yours sincerely,

Your friend from the doomed continent

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Comments
  1. Sabina Babayeva for Stockholm says:

    I hope Sasha Lendero will write entry for Slovenia next year or even compete as a singer! ;-*

  2. The Phantom says:

    A very good letter indeed. One thing that really disappoints me is my own country’s attitude towards the contest. We don’t have to adore eurovision, but a little less pessimism each year could go a long way. Articles like this one in the Guardian really don’t help and neither did our old commentator Terry Wogan. With Wogan I felt like the glass was always half empty, but with Graham Norton its half full, always seeing the positives in things rather than blaming it on eastern europe again.

    Despite the result, I have certainly noticed an improvement in the BBC’s efforts since 2009. Two triple figure scores in the last four years for the UK is something I never would have thought possible after the 2008 edition. And even where we’ve done poorly (with Josh and Engelbert), the right intentions were there. I do feel that with this increased effort, combined with having Graham Norton as the commentator, is steering us in the right direction. But I still think we need to step it up another gear to really do well on a consistent basis.

    It is very frustrating seeing so many newspaper articles online that contain inaccuracies about the contest. The journalists (and consequently the public) turn to the phrase “political voting” far too easily when writing articles about the ESC, when in fact most of the voting is down to culture, diaspora and people simply liking a song! (do they ever consider that?)

    Once again, good job Eurovision Times!

    • togravus says:

      Good and honest comment. Kudos!

    • Martin Beattie says:

      Perhaps it is more to do with the fact that sometimes the BBC do not send songs of the highest standard. It is okay to send a big-name star but if the song is not up to standard then there is no way that they are going to win no matter who they are. As for the votes the European Broadcasting Union will have to do something about the ‘dear neighbour’ voting between certain countries which is ruining the contest. This year again we had the same old boring repetition of Cyprus voting twelve points to Greece and Greece voting twelve to Cyprus not to mention Moldova and Romania, Norway and Sweden. There should be an international jury made up of people whose countries do not enter Eurovision. Their responsibility would be to cast the final votes which might make for a more balanced result. As for the United Kingdom is it really worthwhile entering next year?

  3. Ninja says:

    ahahah totally agree with the comment on the UK. The song was dull and boring and personally I wouldn’t of voted for it either.

  4. Sabina Babayeva for Stockholm says:

    @ Ppl

    I forgot to tell you that I read in Bulgarian newspapers about Sofi Marinova’s failure in semifinal! She faced many rude and nationalist comments unfortunately because she is Roma! :( She faced many comments that her choice of dress was HORRIBLE and looked so ugly and Gypsy!! :(

    Also some singers criticized her, like for example DesiSlava who lost to her in the NF and Mariana Popova who represented Bulgaria in 2007! :@ :(

    • Patrick P. says:

      That’s terrible!

      Sofi Marinova didn’t fail. In fact, compared to most of Bulgaria’s results, she has one of the best results yet. The only acts that did better were Mariana Popova and Deep Zone and Balthazar (and this was only in terms of points. Since Sofi technically tied with the 10th-ranked entry, she could be said to have actually done better than them).

      …Gosh, I hate nationalism.

      • togravus says:

        I agree! After all, Sofi got the 2nd best result for Bulgaria so far (La Popova and DZ & B both had much more countries voting in their semis), and I was quite surprised how popular she was at our party. People liked her voice and the lighting a lot.
        Considering that every blogger on the net considered her a no-hoper and predicted last place, she did amazingly well, in particular if we consider that all the FYR countries who could have been the major support had so many songs closer to home to vote for.

        And I agree. Racism and nationalism are terrible and to be fought wherever they pop up!

        • Patrick P. says:

          There was only one more country voting in DZ & B’s semi. Remember, that was the first year of the two semi-final system.

          • togravus says:

            You are right. I got that wrong. Still, it is the 3rd best result for Bulgaria then.

            • Patrick P. says:

              That’s me, the factcheck machine. Lol

              Anyway, it could still be counted as second, if you consider the fact that she tied the song that was ranked 10th and only didn’t make it due to the tiebreak system. Oh, the ambiguity!

        • Sabina Babayeva for Stockholm says:

          Can you decide, you will react on my comments or not?

          Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have problem in both situations, but if you say me once: “I won’t etc…” and then you discuss on what I post as topic, I feel uncomfortable and embarrassing! :(

          • togravus says:

            In this case I reacted to Patrick but further down I reacted to one of your comments. And I said that I would not react to insults, attacks, insinuations and slander. After all, I am allowed to decide which comments to react to, or am I not? I will always react to normal comments.

    • mermaid says:

      As if Desislava would achieve half of the positive reactions Sofi got…Her dress choice was poor but connecting the failure to her ethnicity is disgusting!

    • roselildk says:

      so she failed because she was Roma/Gypsy and because of her dress… OMG!!!! they should support her instead of bashing her.. This ESC is like a lottery really she sang very well, she only needed a better dress + show to get the attention

      • Sabina Babayeva for Stockholm says:

        I’m 98% sure that DesiSlava is creator of these things! She was already very angry in March when she lost to her in the NF, and accused Sofi for Plagiarism of her entry (of some Romanian house song) and for fixing results in NF! :/

        • mermaid says:

          So many cats fight going on in Bulgaria then :) I hope they send Aziz next year.He is my #1 Bulgarian artist ;)
          @Marko how is chinese geography going? I hope it is not as complicated as the language :P

          • Sabina Babayeva for Stockholm says:

            Azis can go for Serbia as well, in recent time he makes many duets with our turbo folk (Serbian variation of chalga) singers! :D

            It’s not that easy tbh, many difficult names.. :/

            Good night! :-*

    • Postageincluded says:

      She was my favourite this year, and I was very disappointed she didn’t make it to the finals – she’d have done a lot better than the ghastly (but good-looking) Tooji from Norway who took her place. But then I love Techno dance music – the music of my youth.

      As you know Bulgarian perhaps you can tell me what “Dorem dem dem dem” means. The translations here in the UK didn’t translate this. Bulgarian for “Dooby dooby do” perhaps?

      • Sabina Babayeva for Stockholm says:

        Hi! :)

        Yes, it actually doesn’t mean anything! It’s like “La, la, la” or “Na, na, na”, it’s typical for Romani/Gypsy songs – instead of “La, la, la” or “Na, na, na”..she is Bulgarian Gypsy so she says that and also she mentions “I love you ” in Gypsy language! :)

        • Postageincluded says:

          Thanks so much, Sabina. It sort of sounded like an ancient tradition. That’s one of the things I liked about the song, the contrast of old, traditional and local with new and cosmopolitan.

          And I suppose by starting the song that way she is also saying “Roma and Proud”. Good for her! Recently in the UK it has become not just acceptable but almost fashionable to be prejudiced against Gypsies – but they’re a small divided community. If a lead on Roma rights is going to come from anywhere then Bulgaria is the place. Come back next year, Sofi!

          • Sabina Babayeva for Stockholm says:

            Maybe you have every year more and more Roma immigrants in UK, you didn’t have earlier almost at all, maybe that is the reason…

            You are English or?
            You are male or female?

            Hehhehe, I’m not Sabina, and I’m not female! :) I’m male and my name is Marko, I’m from Serbia!
            I just set “Sabina Babayeva for Stockholm” as nick because I was impressed with Azeri Sabina Babayeva’s performance of “When the music dies” in Baku and i want to see her again in Sweden ESC next year! :)

  5. togravus says:

    I have just watched Iceland and I still don’t understand what went wrong there. This song worked perfectly for me on the small stage of the intimate Icelandic preselection. It gave me goosebumps. Then they changed the language to English and I thought that this decision might ruin the experience for me but it didn’t … I still got goosebumps, but perhaps those were the result of the fantastic imagery of the video more than the translated song. I don’t know … Anyway, Iceland were my 3rd favourite before the contest but I had Gréta Salóme & Jónsi only in 8th place last night. Jónsi’s vocals were not the best but still … that is not enough to explain why I went from goosebumps to stone cold. There is sth wrong with the staging but I cannot point my finger to it … and it is driving me mad. Suggestions, please … HELP!

    • Patrick P. says:

      Jonsi frustrated me magnificently in both the semi and the final. In the semi, you couldn’t hear him, as Greta overpowered him. In the final, you could hear him but he could never harmonize with Greta.

      One of my friends pointed out in the semi that she was really annoyed that Greta was smiling throughout such a dramatic and serious ballad. She argued that it made the performance seem fake. Could that be part of it?

      It could also be that the song didn’t seem organic anymore. It seemed more like a song forced on the artists than a song penned and composed by the woman on stage. Everything was too polished and performance-oriented, while nothing seemed to point to the fact that this was a song that both of them wanted to perform.

      • togravus says:

        I have just watched the performance again and thank you (and your friend) so much. Spot-on. That’s it. The performance was just too polished to allow me to react emotionally and Gréta’s smile is annoying as hell. I didn’t notice it before but now I am sure that I noticed it subconsciously and that it spoiled the fantastic experience I had while watching it in the Icelandic preselection. Sometimes you destroy a thing by trying to make it perfect, just like des Esseintes’ turtle in Huysman’s ‘À rebours’. :(

      • Sabina Babayeva for Stockholm says:

        I told you many times Patrick, that Jonsi is the weakest link, once flopper (2004) always flopper! ;) Plus song was such a cliche…it was way too ESC friendly that it looked like a parody! :/

    • yeah I do have an idea but as I said, I’ll rewatch it all with my cold head and will give full analysis then we shall see if we agree there

    • mermaid says:

      I was a number one fan of this song but they failed to impress me on the stage…I blame it on English or the wrong chemistry between them!

  6. You should have added “the twelve from Uk to Jedward last year, are they political, geopolitical, unfair?”

  7. roselildke says:

    ohhh guys help me!!! I dont know what I did wrong but this site is not working for me anymore.. Whenever I want to write I have to log in again and again, and when someone reply to my post i can see it..it all looks messy:(

  8. Sir Shakespeare says:

    I completely agree with what you write in this article (except that I don’t consider The Guardian to be a quality paper, only broadsheet papers are imo). British people are often absolutely lovely, but they still seem to have some sort of cultural imperialist view remaining with them; maybe a relic from the time when the sun did never set in the British Empire? What surprises me most is that they actually seem to enjoy feeding the idea that they are hated by the whole of Europe. Why is it so? And all these comments that goes “even if we would send Adele or Elton John, we would still not win this shitty contest” are annoying me to death. Why not actually send a top artist as a variation? After all, you haven’t done it since like 1975. Give it a try, I promise that you won’t be disappointed.

    And while I’m still talking about the UK, I must add that I’m a real Anglophile (you can tell by my nick, can’t you). But the England I love is the England before WWII: Shakespeare, Ben Jonson, Thomas Parnell, Dickens, Chesterton, Gilbert & Sullivan and so on. I have never been a huge lover of Beatles, Rolling Stones, Sex Pistols and bands like these. My musical taste of Britain consits of musical groups like Westminster Abbey Choir and Royal Scots Dragoon Guards. With that said, you might guess that my all-time favourite British entry is “A man without love”, with Kenneth McKellar.

    Well, it isn’t. My UK favourites are the ones from 1960 (guilty pleasure), 1964, 1965, 1970 and 1989. As long as it is well-crafted and well-performed in my ears, I will not even care if it’s punk or anything else.

    Well, good night everyone!

  9. togravus says:

    Finished! Peter Urban on Moldova 2012: “The funny blacksmith and his dancing lampshades.” You can tell that he loved it to bits because he introduced the song with the phrase “Freuen Sie sich auf …” (look forward to) :)

  10. Dimitry Latvia USA says:

    I agree with everything except for one part – that if you send a famous star, you can achieve great result. It doesn’t hurt to send someone well-known but only if they have a good song. Alexander Rybak was unknown when he went to Eurovision, as well as Lena, as well as Loreen, as well as ABBA, as well as many others.
    So, it’s better if BBC will make an effort to find a good song, organize national final and look for fresh talent – and the success will come soon.

  11. Such sweeping generalisations about British people are nothing better than racism. You can criticize individuals for their behaviour, governments and other organisations, but to make negative comments about a whole group of people based on nationality, ethnicity, age, gender, sexual orientation, etc isn’t acceptable as far as I’m concerned.

    Secondly I’m bored to death with people saying that the UK should send someone like Adele – they’re just not interested In Eurovision, is that too difficult to understand? Eurovision is as seen by many in the UK as a rather bizarre show with poor quality music, it isn’t taken as seriously as in some other countries, it’s just a big joke. Representing the UK in Eurovision would probably damage credibility at home. But again there are some of us that follow the contest from year to year and do take it more seriously. If people want to see Eurovision as rubbish, that is up to them, after all I see football as a pointless boring waste of time, but millions are fanatical about it.

  12. Jack Cuffe says:

    I really hope we dont withdraw!

  13. iblamewogan says:

    It doesn’t get any better! (take a look at http://uk.tv.yahoo.com/eurovision-fans-tell-bbc-to-quit-event-%E2%80%93-daily-tv-round-up.html if your blood pressure can take it)
    As an Englishman I’m going to take the time one day to really analyse and try to explain why it is that so many of us have this kind of attitude to anything involving “Europe” – as if we exist on a different continent completely – but this isn’t the time or place and it’s a depressing subject anyway.
    So I’ll just point out to my fellow countrymen and women who look on the ESC as “kitsch” and “rubbish” and think we’re too good to take it seriously that in the last series of “Britain’s Got Talent” the oh-so superior British public voted for a dancing dog!!!
    Make of that what you will!

  14. I_have_an_opinion says:

    Many years of late, the UK’s entry has been a rubbish song. And then they wonder why the song gets so few points. Engelbert’s song was not bad, but it was too unforgettable. It was the kind of slow song the DJ plays at the end of the night when he wants everyone because he wants to get home. One reason given for the UK finishing second from bottom is that the UK’s song was the first sung. If the song is memorable, it doesn’t matter how early it is in the running order, and the UK’s song was certainly not memorable. Englebert said that the UK’s song was a song that needed listening to a few times, but that is no good for Eurvision. Despite being able to hear the songs weeks in advance on the Internet, there are still many people who hear the songs for the first time on the night.

    Could sending a boring/bad song be deliberate? Honestly the UK cannot afford to host it even if they did win. Come on, the UK is having to pay for the 2012 Olympics and the Queen’s Jubilee.

    I also agree with all those who say that it is not necessary to send a big well-known singer. A good song with good lyrics and a good rhythm sung by someone who isn’t tone deaf that people can remember is more important. The UK could get Kylie Minogue to sing next year’s entry, but if it’s a rubbish song it still ain’t gonna win.

    For the record, I am guilty of political voting. I’m an Englishwoman who takes Eurovision very seriously, but I always vote for Ireland. Anyway aren’t Jeward the reason the double-barrelled shotgun was invented?

  15. togravus says:

    Even in the Australian voting the Engelbert Humperdinck only came 20th. Do they have a political bias against the UK down under too?

  16. Chris says:

    I agree with your letter and i am really happy you replied to him because the Brits are so fucking arrogant and full of themselves that pisses me off. I just disagree with one thing. You mentioned that Montenegro, Serbia etc share the same culture and music. Unfortunately you did not tell that about Cyprus and Greece which is the exact same case. Just to tell you this…Cyprus does not have a music scene of its own. Almost all musicians of Cyprus live and have their careers in Greece. The Greek X-factor, Pop idol, etc. for example are aired in Cyprus as well and auditions of these shows are held in Cyprus as well and viewers from Cyprus vote for these shows as well. I’m just trying to say that they have a common music scene…an artist which is well known in Greece, he/she is in Cyprus as well. Almost everything is common…even television channels.

    • Postageincluded says:

      Chris, you’re wrong. We’ve gone beyond the arrogant/full-of-oursleves stage years ago and moved on to whining self-pity and petulance. Eurovision is a great occasion for us to express ourselves.

      As regards Greece/Cyprus – well the UK and Ireland are in pretty much the same position. The appaling “Jedward” were discovered in the UK X-Factor show. In fact it is a sort of tradition in the UK to have an Irishman compere the Eurovision Final.

      The real solution for the whiners is the break up of the UK. Scotland is threatening to leave, Wales is looking for further autonomy. But actually we don’t need to go that far. The Isle of Man is not part of the UK, nor are the Channel Isles (all 4 of them), which are also mutually independent of the UK and each other – they just share the Monarch with the Uk, that’s all. All they need is a few constitutional changes, their own TV stations as part of Eurovision and we can all vote for each other as much as we like.

      I doubt it’d do any good.

      • Chris says:

        Hahahahaha!!!Well to be honest i regret that my comment about the Brits was a bit too generalised!I realised it afterwards…i just hate how most of them see the Eurovision and Europe as well.

        And believe me even if the UK splits up into Wales, England, Scotland, Channel islands, N. Ireland etc. you will still find something to moan about…that’s just how the Brits are..moan moan moan and living into their own little perfect world where everyone is great and no one non-Brit can reach their socio-cultural level :p (Loved your reply btw)

  17. Anonymous says:

    Should be 30% televote, 40% National Jury, But also 30% International Jury/EBU Jury

  18. dschulija says:

    While i agree with some points you made…i dont agree with your comments abt the UKs entry. See,i am from Germany and i really liked Mr Humperdincks song. It’s mainly the fact that the UK (similar to Germany) does not have too many friends in Eurovision and that Mr Humperdinck failed to make use of excessive pyrotechnics or to dress in a skimpy dress that left nothing to your imagination. (And,..if you compare it to Roman, the German singer, he was older – no teenage girls voting for him and we still have some Lena-bonus)

    In a contest, where boring entries like Bosnia or Aserbaijan and right out terribly sung entries like Russia can best clear, well sung performances like those of the UK or Denmark…i wouldn’t say that it is truly a fair contest. But then again this has been debated for years without any solution….why not put all Eastern countries in one semi-final and the western European countries in the other?

  19. Minni Min says:

    Blue was amazing last year. They had a modern up-tempo song,”I Can”, and I lot of people across Europe and the world loved it. Even my mom liked it when she saw them in the finals. They came 11th overall but in Televotes they were 5th.

    The only problem for Blue was their performance. They were off at some point and the choreography could not compete with Azerbaijan. So they scored less from the jury thus sending to 11th place. Even Jedward had better choreography than them. You guys may argue about my comment but if you watch other competitors’ performance s Poeveral times you will notice this.

    When the UK sends their next song entry next year (which I’m hoping will be up-tempo song) they need to come up with a better stage setting and choreography. Singer should be able to sing of course. If you guys bother to pour the same amount of creativity as you do on shows like The X Factor you will definitely score higher.

  20. Anonymous says:

    Why can’t UK admit that they LOST! The song was terrible!!! OLD & TERRIBLE & double that!!!!

  21. [...] Editorial: Letter To “The Guardian” (eurovisiontimes.wordpress.com) [...]

  22. ddegroodt says:

    A great letter, you are right the song of Engelbert wasn’t one of the best and as a journalist this bloke needed to get his facts right. I’m writing for GloPop and I’ve also written an article concerning the UK. so I don’t know if you would be interested in sharing it and discuss it. You can find it here http://glopop.co.uk/2012/05/31/esc-eurovision-2012-is-dead-long-live-uk-2013/

  23. Peter says:

    great letter.
    I wonder if the Guardian received it, and what was their response!

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